(Greensboro, VT) – On its Friday evening newscast, a Vermont TV station, WCAX, did a full-length story on Hill Farmstead beers making their way onto eBay.
The WCAX story comes after BeerPulse’s report this past week detailing the brewery’s animosity toward eBay beer sales.
According to the report, “For fighting back, Hill is getting heat from beer drinkers and bloggers. They say he should just make more or take it as a compliment.” [Note for readers: someone find me two beer blogs that put heat on Hill this past week and no, message board/forum posts do not count as blogs.]
Shortly after the Friday news story, an eBay beer salesman posted up an empty Hill Farmstead growler as a throw-in on one auction. Though no Hill Farmstead beers are up for sale as of publishing, a bottle of Hill Farmstead Mimosa was sold for $200 last week just before the BeerPulse report.
Vermont-based Lawson’s Finest Liquids is also named in the WCAX report as being against eBay sales. That brewery has two beer listings up on the site where the seller has appended, “Heady Hill Dark Topper Farmstead Lord,” to the listing name to increase the likelihood that prospective buyers will see it.
The Alchemist also issued a statement on eBay sales as part of the report. The reporter paraphrased, “The Alchemist says that once it is in consumers’ hands, it is out of their hands so they are ok with their beers being [re-sold].'”
Vermont Brewers Association, Executive Director, Kurt Staudter, mentioned illegality and quality control as his primary reasons against eBay sales. Beer trading, which carries both of those strikes against it as well (though arguably benefits brewers by building buzz and excitement around them) was not mentioned in the report.
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In a new twist to the saga, Adam Jackson, the man who famously wrote an essay on his past experience as an eBay beer salesman, published another one on Tuesday night defending the brewery. Jackson, who also recently penned a number of glowing reviews of Hill Farmstead beers and completed a Hill Farmstead cross-stitch, appears to have won over the team at the brewery after an ugly April incident.
That month, Hill Farmstead founder, Shaun Hill, and his father helped Jackson move his car out from the mud only to later find that Jackson had put Hill Farmstead on eBay. In closing a thread about the incident, Beer Advocate founder, Todd Alstrom, said, “He needs help. Seriously.” Another thread on RateBeer regarding the incident was deleted.
Three months since becoming what may be the country’s most prolific beer geek, Jackson is now playing the role of private investigator on eBay beer sales. He writes:
I have a solution for brewers. Send me an email or reach out to Shaun Hill (maybe he’s not okay with that so I’ll ask him and update this). If you’re a brewer that has found people selling bottles on eBay illegally and you want to do something about it, I have a workflow set up with eBay. It’s not some brewer dashboard for getting sales removed and identifying exactly who is selling your beer (beyond just their eBay alias). It’s a single point of contact within eBay who is keeping a list of breweries and their contacts. If that person sees an auction go up for that brewery and knows the brewer doesn’t allow these sales / makes a statement to eBay that, “None of my bottles are rare or collectible”, the auction is taken down. The brewer also has the ability to email one person with an auction link and have that auction removed within minutes. It also puts internal strikes against the beer sellers so, after a few take-downs, that person’s account is gone.
I have been working on this since my last blog post and think it is slowly a way to limit what people can sell on eBay when it comes to “collectible sealed beer bottles.”
Hill and Lawson now have a valuable sidekick in Jackson to work on their behalf.
With this modern day version of Frank Abagnale, Jr. at the helm, perhaps no eBay beer salesman is safe going forward.
I’m all for eBay taking down auctions if those auctions violate any laws. Beyond that I don’t like companies who think that after selling a product they can tell you what you can and can’t do with it.
That statement is made with the following exception of taking material that is copyrighted, reproducing and then reselling it.
Full disclosure I was a ticket broker for 9 years and got my start on eBay – so I can relate to both sides of the argument -but it wasn’t illegal to sell tickets on eBay – and yet eBay still pandered to some of the BIG ticketing companies in primary ticket market.
Hill Farmstead showed up at the Vermont Chessemakers Featival today and left because the word is, they wanted to charge for tasters. Beer and Wine tastings were an additional cost to ticket holders. Those that purchased received 10 tickets. Each ticket equated to 4 samples from any winery, cider mill, or brewery that attended. You could also purchase a full glass from any should you want to. Hill Farmstead said they would lose money so they left the Featival.
Lose money by introducing prospective beer drinkers to their products? LOL, now they’ll lose money for bad PR and attitude. There are a lot of really great brewers out there that are “really great brewers” without much business savvy!
You guys are trying very hard to paint me as an ass kisser and I don’t appreciate it. I won’t even defend these asinine statements. You write it in a way that it would appear I’m kissing ass to be able to buy great beer. That’s not the case at all.
I realize I was wrong before to sell beer and I now see the problems with selling beer on eBay. The original post showed many reasons why I came to the realization that this was a bad decision like one being that, after fees, it’s really not a lucrative way to sell beer and a pain in the ass to ship beer to strangers.
That cross-stitch was started before any of this went down. Both myself and my girlfriend have many mutual friends that have worked at HFS or are friends with Shaun. To drag me back into this only helps my page-views to the blog. You’re piecemealing this to the extreme. If you want to write a “report”, please email me for a statement. I’m not hard to reach.
I’ve replaced “be angling his way into the brewery’s good graces” with “have won over the team at the brewery” which should clear up any confusion.
Best,
Adam
Adam Jackson the real issue is you have nothing better to do with your life than try and show off. You are the perfect example of why people hate beer geeks and I honestly cannot blame them. Go ahead and continue to kiss their ass, maybe you’ll be able to get a bottle of Ann to sell!
The problem isn’t that people are selling it. The problem is that people will buy it.
First, I can’t believe a brewery would pull out of a festival because it didn’t want to give out free samples on the grounds of “losing money.” I mean, how big were those samples? Half gallon? Bad move on their part.
Second, I agree with Alan that it’s buyers that drive this thing. And what drives buyers may often be this insatiable need to have every f-ing beer on earth, especially those we call “whales” or otherwise just hard to come by stuff from far away places. Maybe we would all benefit by appreciating what we do have locally rather than driving ourselves crazy over what isn’t available.
When I got back into craft beer, I though I lived in a podunk area with nothing to offer. Turns out as luck should have it, the top three rated breweries on RateBeer are in my back yard, and three out of the four new breweries that opened within the last year nearby are making outstanding stuff. There are only a couple parts of the U.S. that can legitimately claim to be starved of excellent beer, and even most of those areas still have some options.
Chasing down far-flung beer because of hype can turn otherwise reasonable people into rabid lunatics.
And people will continue to do so with virtually no other means of access.
I’d be curious what would happen if the VT (or insert any other state here) brewers filed a complaint with the state liquor board that eBay was harboring illegal sales in its jurisdiction.
I know that the Rock Art owner and Senator Leahy are tight.
on what grounds does a brewer have to declare “None of my bottles are rare or collectible”? That is just not for them to decide. collectible and rare are determined by the buyers.
AJ-you try to paint yourself as this saint now because you have seen the errors of your ways. I can see right through you by your comments. the reason you stopped selling is because you weren’t making as much money as you thought you would, especially compared to the flack you received for it. So now you have created this elaborate system to pull auctions? I call BS. Listings aren’t going to be pulled because they don’t violate eBay’s policies.
My problem with eBay sales of beer is the quality. I have no confidence that the seller shipping beer to me is providing anything fresh. If it’s a growler, how can you be sure it’s even from the brewery the seller claims? The seller is winding their way through eBays loopholes to make a buck off of someone else’s work. I have no confidence in their integrity. I, personally, will not do business with them.
That said, let’s say that you’re one of the people who wants to blow your hard earned cash on a rare beer from a possibly reputable seller. I say, “Have at it, Hoss; it’s your gamble.”
There are great breweries in every state of the union. Instead of spending way too much on the next Pliny the Dark Lord Farmstead, get to know your local brewery, brewpub and/or beer bar. Your enjoyment of a beer is influenced not just by taste. My best beers, I also remember the music, the food and the people I imbibed with.
Assuming a seller is honest (no idea what that percentage is), the same exact issue exists for someone shipping beer as a trade but you don’t call out trading. Why? Beer is still being shipped from someone’s home to someone else’s home through either UPS or FedEx.
It may be part of your values that it is wrong to flip something of someone else’s for 10x profit after knowing that the producer knowingly sold it at a lower-than-fair-market price to make it affordable for customers. Understandable. I think that is where the eBay argument begins and ends though unless you’re willing to be equally against trading.
Trading carries the same risks around quality, illegality and authenticity of the product being shipped from the other end of the transaction.
My sense is that people are clinging to these arguments because these carry more objectivity than the morality around flipping products in an aftermarket which is clearly subjective.
I’m making this point only because I’ve observed some bias in all of this. Seems that it’s a lot more fashionable to come out against eBay than trading, perhaps because those who are making arguments engage in the latter. May not be the case; just sayin’.
The subject certainly gets me going and I’m definitely biased. My opinions, no matter how vehement, are still just opinions. I’m a control freak.
In my over 10 years as an eBay seller, I have encountered primarily great folks. I have not bought or sold beer there. I have only one personal incident to point to of a less than reputable eBay beer seller.
I have talked about shipping beer with friends. I’m not against it, but I would only do it knowing the person on the other end.
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In regards to the Cheesemaker’s Festival – It is frustrating how people assume what they want to – and always assume the worst and most cynical scenario: that Hill Farmstead is some selfish entity. Last year, we poured 10 ounce glasses of beer for people for a fee. This year, the Vermont Wine Council dictated, just two days before the event, that only wineries would be reimbursed for 4 x 2oz tasting tickets – and that the breweries weren’t included. For the first hour of the festival, dozens of people came up to our booth requesting their “free 8 ounces of beer” – and the festival wine coordinator lectured us for trying to pour a single 8 ounce glass of beer. You could NOT purchase a full glass (4 ounces, of wine, maximum).
Imagine 60 to 100 people, waiting in line, in a small and cramped room, being slowly poured 4 x 2oz samples, single file… After an entire weekend of pouring 2 ounce samples (thousands of them, actually) at the VT Brewer’s Festival – the rule change at the Cheesemaker’s Festival was stressful and exhausting. There had never been a ticket system, previously, and people were frustrated and confused. – the rule change at the Cheesemaker’s Festival was stressful and exhausting. There had never been a ticket system, previously, and people were frustrated and confused. I am certain that they will change the rules next year in order to reflect customer demand.
Well, I don’t agree with Farmstead’s reaction to the ebay issue. Obviously laws must be followed, but I don’t see this being any different than with wine. People buy a case and sit on it and may eventually sell or trade it. I can’t imagine a winery having the same reaction as Farmstead. Besides that, I think Farmstead’s reaction is misplaced. When I buy beer, I buy it. I don’t lease it and I’m not renting it. After you accept my money, you agree that it’s no longer yours. That’s basic rules of trade.
On the Festival issue, sounds like the rules were confusing. I’m sure the back to back events are tiring. And I bet that the brewers don’t even break even.
BTW, Fed Ex has an over 21 signature required service. I know they will ship wine and liquor.
“People buy a case and sit on it and may eventually sell or trade it.” Don’t know enough about the wine market but from my observations, people generally sit on beers and resell them as vintages if they are part of a multi-year “vertical.” Seems like part of the issue here is the immediate flipping.
Re: FedEx, in some states, companies can legally sell beer and ship it you (hence, the 21+ signature which they pay a fee on) though unlicensed individuals can not legally sell beer and ship it.