(Lexington, MA) – Following the recent release of Clown Shoes Lubrication, a discussion has broken out on Beer Advocate around the brewery’s label artwork.
Update: Blog post on this from label artist, Stacey George
Update 2: Made the local news station
After about three hours, we are already at over 325 replies to comments made by Beer Advocate Events Director, Candice Alström. Here is an excerpt:
“Granted I didn’t find this one nearly as bad as Tramp Stamp and Brown Angel. But on Twitter, the first thing people pointed out about it was the “dong.” Of course the title of the beer is gross with that in mind. And with this Clownshoes being the tacky brand that they are, I have no doubt that it is all about the dong.
I don’t get it. I don’t get why they have to go there to sell beer. We don’t need this kind of crap. Of course he can do whatever he wants, and I ask no one to agree with me if they don’t see my point of view here. I just don’t think we need to go there to sell beer. If these beers were any good, he wouldn’t need to go there to try and sell it. They are average at best and these dumb labels do nothing to help/change that.”
Here is an excerpt from Clown Shoes’ Gregg Berman’s response:
“I used to sit behind a desk and answer phones, push buttons, and combat life threatening boredom. Now I get to do this. I want to do this forever if possible. Who wouldn’t? But I am realistic about the life of brands. So I am trying in three ways to keep Clown Shoes alive:
1. Make the best beer we can dream up and keep dreaming up more
2. Travel to markets, supports customers and reps, attend fests and give out swag
3. Put out the most creative marketing my (not trained in marketing) brain can conceive of. When my group of friends and coworkers agree overall, we roll with a new idea. The edginess is intentional, but not meant to be extreme or particularly offensive. Each label has been a unique inspiration.
Ok, all that being said, I guess I fall into the V camp too, because today is the first I have heard of a ‘dong’ in the Lubrication label. You may believe it or not, but G rated was the goal, with the direction to the artist being “reflect classic oil cans in the art somehow.” The name is provocative enough, I didn’t feel the need for a racy label.”
Let’s be honest. It has been a slow news holiday weekend hangover-type day so now is as good a time as any to ask…
Do you find these labels distasteful or not?
I’ve only seen the one pictured above, but I see nothing distasteful or racy about it … in the slightest.
People just like to hear their own voice and they think everyone else likes hearing it too, hence the creation of that pointless thread.
Some people have FAR too much time on their hands. It almost seems as though being the easily offended “White Knight” is the hip thing to be these days. I, for one, find anyone that pushes the envelope of “good taste” quite refreshing. The more easily offended try to convince yourself that you are, the harder I’m going to poke at you.
Grow up. Get over yourselves. “Just because you’re offended, doesn’t mean you’re in the right.” –Ricky Gervais
The bros need to quit crying. There is nothing particularly racy about the label, they’re trying to make it so. What’s wrong with calling a beer Lubrication. Isn’t that what beer is? Social Lubricant? Taste is also subjective so to call that into play because you don’t like the beer particularly is kind of ridiculous. Hey bros, i don’t have the same taste as you, but if i disagree with you, you ban me from your forum. Oh well.
The hypocrisy is strong on BA. ISO Brown Angel.
I see nothing wrong with this art. If you are going to confuse a gas pump handle for a dick you probably need your eyes checked.
Oh noes! A beer label may have a cartoon penis on it? Why can’t people be serious about beer like the cromags at Beer Advocate?
Leave it to BA to make something out of nothing.. I didn’t even think about the gas nozzle being anything else until I went and read the thread. Perhaps moving the arm up would quell the perverse pubescent minds of the BA crowd? What does that say about all of them to think that way anyways? The site is no doubt predominantly male so it makes them seem a little…well, not being derogatory but gay.
Way to go guys, hate on the small brewer with a sense of humor.. Did the BA masses forget what this industry is about? Don’t take yourselves so seriously.
Beer Advocate no longer advocates for beer. Instead they use their forum and the audience it assembles to publicly cut down new, local brands. They should be ashamed for the attention this had drawn.
*Thumbs down*
I don’t find the labels nearly as distasteful as the beer.
The others are linked near the top of the post.
Remember when Dogfish Head made a beer called Golden Shower?
1st, F’ BA! I’m tired of the snobbish bullshit that goes on in the world of Craft Beer. I love the angle from Clown Shoes…the name itself has a connotation that could be construed as rude. I for one love Clown Shoes, I think for a relatively new brewery, their beer is exceptional and the names are even better. I pray that Craft Beer doesn’t go the way of wine snobs.
This is nauseating. There is nothing racy about this particular label. Brown Angel, maybe. Tramp Stamp, delightfully so.
I didn’t bother posting anything in the BA thread, because it would have fallen on deaf ears. Started by anyone else and the thread would have been locked and removed. Regardless…
IT’S FRIGGIN’ BEER, guys (and gals, apparently)! If you are offended by a damn beer label then that says waaaay more about you than it does about the brewer.
Wow… She clearly has an axe to grind and obviously the Alstroms are above the rules…
For the record, I’m the artist. AND I’m a woman. And I think women can be depicted as sexy without it being demeaning and women of color can be used in packaging illustration without it being racist. No one seemed to pick up on the fact that it is a woman defiling the name woman on these offensive labels and I think that’s important point to this discussion. I do admit, however, I am not a robot, so if any robots were hurt by my illustration, I humbly apologize.
One last question. If you were standing, holding a gas nozzle, how high would you hold your arm? Honestly, because I think that’s about where we all would hold the nozzle. No “dong” (seriously, she used the word “dong?”) let’s say, no phallic symbol intended. Of course, now that you’ve pointed it out, all the better!
What’s annoying is that Candace Alstrom considers herself the voice of what is good and proper. Her post on beeradvocate initiated the discussion, and in that post she argues on the behalf of what “we” need, with regard to craft beer. Duh…thanks for letting me know what “we” need, Candace. This also points to a bigger problem with the self-important blowhards, the Alstroms. Beeradvocate has become a place for the Alstroms to proselytize for what the Alstroms think is good and proper; moreover, the delusion Alstroms belittle folks who subscribe to their magazine and participate on their forums. They simply don’t like the people who post on the forums. So, this tempest-in-a-teapot has more to do with the resentment that the craft beer community has for Alstroms than it does about the beer labels. Go away, Alstroms.
Stacey, I like your Lubrication illustration but I can’t sit by and have you besmirch the word “dong.” It’s a fantastic word of which I’m quite fond of using. For example:
“Ms. Alström should be advised that when you’ve constantly got dong on the mind you start seeing them everywhere, even on service station robots.”
Wait. People still read Beer Advocate?
Hilarious. I like the beer quite a bit. I believe that it wasn’t intentional, but that only makes it funnier.
Brown Angel especially is a great beer, even moreso on cask.
The discussion here is so far infinitely more amusing and informed than the one on BA. I’m probably more sensitive to chauvinism in labels than 95% of beer drinkers, and I thought Clown Shoes art was some of the best of last year.
Side note: was anyone else troubled by Jason’s closing remark on that forum that he wouldn’t try a beer called Lubrication? For one, it’s not that ridiculous a name, but more importantly: Shouldn’t a co-founder of Beer Advocate be a little above not trying beers whose NAMES he finds distasteful? Will the Alstrom Bros never review a beer if the name reminds them of something one of them doesn’t like?
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it, but that’s just me. I say, let them put whatever they like on their labels. If people don’t buy the beer as a result, the market will inform them to change it up! (Assuming the beer is good despite the package) I haven’t tried any of their beers, but the label wouldn’t bother me.
“Shouldn’t a co-founder of Beer Advocate be a little above not trying beers whose NAMES he finds distasteful? Will the Alstrom Bros never review a beer if the name reminds them of something one of them doesn’t like?”
Greg, you bring up an interesting point.
If you look at how their rating system works out numerically “appearance” doesn’t count nearly as much as taste. I believe appearance counts for 10% while taste is 40%.
Therefore shouldn’t the label (which, to me, is part of appearance) count for less?
I think the most troubling aspect of the post is something that has been mentioned many times at this point: Preferential Treatment.
I am BEYOND convinced that if I had started that thread it would have been locked or deleted within 20 posts.
This fact alone makes me extremely hesitant to engage in conversation again via their forum.
Lastly, mentioning your distaste for something isn’t the opposite of beer advocacy.
Some people seem to think that in order to “advocate beer” you have to like and/or love every beer on the planet which simply is not so.
Saying something to the tune of: “I don’t like that Brewery’s beer as their stuff generally isn’t for me but you should give this Brewery a try instead”.
THAT is “advocating beer”.
It looks like there is a lot of push back in the thread.
i echo greg’s side note. i don’t understand the distastefulness of “lubrication.” ridiculous.
I think this is the first uprising against BA that I can remember. Sure the usual suspect sheep were still there for their undying support but wow.
I thinks its a shame Beer advocate singled out a brewer like that. especially when other brewers closer to BA have made more “questionable” labels.
Golden Shower for example.
It’s 2011.. seriously? The labels aren’t bad at all, matter of fact, they’re awesome. She sounds like Tipper Gore trying to shut down Eminem or Twisted Sister, lol.. way to represent BeerAdvocate.
maybe this additional exposure will do 2 things:
1) help Clown Shoes
and
2) wake up a few more people to the absurdity of BeerAdvocate. just because they are the biggest or formerly a favored option for craft beer fans (new and old) doesn’t mean that people should continue to patroinze their site.
someone else said it best.. they seem to hate their own user base. not sure about the rest of you but i’m not a fan of giving my business to people who so strongly dislike the people who have made them what they are.
you have to really want it and then fail to read the disclaimer/description on the west end of the label.
“Clownshoe’s response was once again tacky and tasteless. Proves why I wouldn’t back down from my twitter accusations.”
I don’t find it offensive or is there anything wrong with it, again this is my opinion.
Beer Advocate should be biased when it comes to rating beers or maybe stop rating beers all together. They have the power to veto any post or review they don’t like … Maybe if Clown Shoes paid for some advertisement on the Bros website, maybe they would have had something different to say … just saying.
If Clown Shoes chooses to use tits and ass to market their products, just like Budweiser and Keystone Light, to name just a couple, that is their business. And if people buy the product, whether it is because they like the beer or just the pretty labels with sexy women, that is their business. And if someone is offended by the objectifying of women to sell craft beer, then it is her right to complain about it in whatever forum she chooses.
People need to chill out. A large thread on BA does not constitute news.
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Anyone who is bitching about the BA users is wrong. The majority of those who responded to the thread were in favor of Clown Shoes and were ticked off that an administrator can abuse her authority to start a thread bitching about another brewery. When a user does it, the thread gets immediately locked or deleted. BA is a joke now. Sure, it’s their sandbox and they can do what they want but their B.S. is ridiculous. You cannot have a discussion anymore, because they lock it or delete it. Those labels offended Candace, oh no! But they advertise a jerk sauce made from craft beer that shows a “rasta-man” with a weed plant in the background and the words “THE SHIZZLE.” But that is ok, right? Yes, because they are getting money for it. The site is a joke. The Alstrom Bros talked about how clown shoes got free press, well so did they! Eff Candace (yeah thats right, no “I”) and eff Jason and Todd.
This was quite an amusing sh*t storm.
Andy
http://www.thebeerisgood.com
Flying Dog had to sue the state of Michigan in order to sell Raging Bitch.
And, now, some craft beer drinkers want to do the same to Clown Shoes, asking them to change the logos and names of the beer they find offensive?
If you don’t like it, don’t buy, and keep your puritanical beliefs to yourself.
I personally don’t love crazy/or slightly ridulous names, but I’m not going to create a stir about them. If the beer is good, who cares. Countless names or labels could be brought into this discussion, so I do find it odd that BA picked on one in particular. I’d be willing to bet that names alone account for a spike in sales for all “controversial” beers (Raging Bitch, Arrogant Bastard, Sexual Chocolate, 420, Old Leghumper…) and therefore the name is an avenue to bring more drinkers to the table that might never have tried the beers otherwise. Yes, it might seem cheesy and maybe even eye rollingly ridiculous, but its just one more way to win drinkers over from the dark side of Macro’s. To good beer – regardless of the name or label!!!
And I suppose, I need to actually answer the question of whether or not I find the label distasteful – No I do not, I kind of like it, and I don’t mind the name at all.
I like BA because of the database, because I can enter reviews, and because of (some) of the discussions.
That said, the bros and Candace have become insufferable. That thread would have been closed or deleted immediately if anyone other than Candace had started it. That is what most of the discussion turned into, but yet the bros and Candace somehow were not able to get off their high horses and understand the pathetic hypocrisy of the situation. It is a pity.
People see what they want to see, under influences such as ideology. Unfortunately, some always take the negative and translate just about everything into an attack on “good”. A defensive response for those insecurities we all have…just in some the salience of insecurity is thicker. It was sad to see terms like “racism”, “sexism” and “stereotyping” used in such a shoddy manner.
As per BA, many people had a problem with HOW the opinion was expressed. The topic was “Done with Clown Shoes”, is vague, absolute, and does not ask for nor dictate others’ opinions or discussion. It’s a holier-than-thou statement, as if people SHOULD and DO care about the poster’s opinion.
If the title were “Does anyone else have objections to Clown Shoes?” more BA-ers would have been open to discussion. Alas, the perception (see above) was that a BA Admin was violating policy, and this ticked off some BA-ers.
“Side note: was anyone else troubled by Jason’s closing remark on that forum that he wouldn’t try a beer called Lubrication? For one, it’s not that ridiculous a name, but more importantly: Shouldn’t a co-founder of Beer Advocate be a little above not trying beers whose NAMES he finds distasteful? Will the Alstrom Bros never review a beer if the name reminds them of something one of them doesn’t like?”
Hey, all the more Harviestoun Old Engine Oil for me……
I personally see nothing wrong with the name or the label. Actually I like them both. The way I see it, craft breweries nation wide are constantly pushing the limits of whats “acceptable” both with the beers and the branding/marketing. For example we see subtle Weed implications on beers such as Boulders Hazed & Infused or Blue Points RastafaRye Ale. Also, Let’s not forget Intercourse Brewing Company. Sure, Intercourse is the name of the town, but they sell t shirts that say “I LOVE INTERCOURSE (beer)”. For those of you who don’t know, Intercourse is owned by a women. I’d love to know Candace’s opinion on those topics.
For me I guess what it comes down to is the craft brewing industry is not Corporate America, they don’t necessarily play by the same rules, and that + quality beer is why I love the craft beer counterculture.
As if ANYONE cares what candace (candayc? kayndis? cayndass?) has to say, and that is what is so amusing to me. She acts like people actually respect her and value her opinion … on anything. I don’t even see how the “bros” can stand to be around her anymore.
Somewhere in that thread, she says “Just an opinion and a discussion. We do discuss things right? Agree or disagree it’s just discussion. I am also not asking anyone to agree. Just talking.”
Then in other posts, I see things like this .. “No it’s not impossible. Just discuss the facts. Don’t make it personal. Keep it about the beer .. But let’s keep it about the beer and the facts.”
and … “Let’s ease out of this one nicely and leave it strictly about the beer and not about policies or broke campaign promises.”
and .. “I can’t wait for Dark Lord Day to be over. I hate the 20,000 ####ing threads that keep getting posted. The day after complaints are worse.”
and … “Stop rabble rousing.”
and … ” I just expressed an opinion and now it’s like I am on trial for it” … no shit, nobody cares what you have to say!
and ironically … “I want real issues to get mad about otherwise 99% of the bitching and moaning we see around here about BMC is wasting my damn time.”
Oh, and from her studious husband, bashing a BA user .. “Learn to read.
Tip: if you’re in someone’s house and question their integrity, expect at least a light spanking.”
and so much more that I want to gouge my eyeballs out reading it.
Kayndess, nobody cares. Seriously. The only reason people sort of put up with you is because they don’t want to get banned, but I think it’s pretty clear that nobody respects you as a moderator, or as one of the “bros” wife (or their first cousin that they married), or as a beer “advocate” or whatever the hell you do. I don’t think most people respect you as a person. You are a disease of the forum. You are toxic. Annoying. And a nuisance.
Member Since Mar 19, 2001 [ Active: 10.33 yrs ]
HAHAHAHAHAHA
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I got booted from BA because I started a joke thread after this one got shut down and the Bros will not even return my emails or facebook messages. I have lost all respect for them and for their site. I feel like i’m in friggen communist China.
@Ian
Come to thebeerspot for a much more tolerable and friendly discussion board.
@Adam
Sorry if pimping another message board is bad form in the comments section.
I’ve actually pimped them on the blog a while back. No worries.
Well I for one don’t give a rat’s ass what critics say about a beer; if I like it, I’m gonna drink it. I’m a woman & I don’t have a problem with Clown Shoes labels- in fact, I think Stacey is one hell of an artist! Now, if I can just convince her to whip up a beer label for “Ass Antlers” I’d be most pleased.
@Resie
Count me in. And I really hope Ass Antlers makes it in to everyday usage in the US.
Kinda blows that beer peeps rip on each other. The industry is still new and we need stick together as “a rising tide lifts all boats”.
zero pretention please.
beeradvocate needs to tranquilo