(Williamsport, PA) – After Bavarian Barbarian Brewing announced its permanent closure on Saturday afternoon, members of the brewing community contacted brewery chief, Mike Hiller. Hiller didn’t like some of the correspondence that came in…
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I just announced the loss of my brewery, Bavarian Barbarian, yesterday. I don’t wish to discuss what happened, so please don’t ask. As you might imagine it has been a very difficult couple of days as I have lost my company, the respect of everyone I’ve disappointed, an awful lot of money and everything else I’ve worked extremely hard for over the last four years.
I have received condolences and offers of help from many of my brewing friends here in Pennsylvania and I greatly appreciate it.
However, I have also been contacted by several people whom I have never met asking for my equipment and to advise them with the details of my company’s demise.
I find this to be extremely distasteful, rude and completely disrespectful. It would never occur to me to treat a man (especially a man I’ve never met) who has just lost everything as an opportunity either for cheap equipment or a free lesson in what not to do in business management. I’m not easily shocked by anything at all, but I can tell you that I’m disturbed by some people who think it’s perfectly fine to contact me in an attempt to pick over the carcass of my lost company.
Please do not contact me. I will not sell you my equipment and I will not take the time to teach any lessons while I am closing my company.
Ummmmmmm…. NO!!!!! I don’t want to recoup some of my losses by selling you equipment I clearly no longer need. DUMB.
Is there some sort of unwritten waiting period rule I’m unaware of when you’re looking to purchase equipment or ask questions about why your business didn’t work out?
With over 850 breweries in planning and many trying to expand, it would be surprising if people didn’t inquire as soon as they found out, nobody wants to lose the chance to buy used equipment at a fair price. I don’t think anyone meant disrespect, it’s a shame to see small businesses fail, but it still is just business.
I get it on one level. On another, I wonder if that kind of vibe was part of the demise…
This post disturbs me greatly. The man needs some counseling. I’m serious. People have taken their own lives over far less. Mr. Hiller- you sound like a very nice person who has just lost a child or a spouse. For God’s sake, talk to a minister, or seek a counselor. Please.
It’s a hard topic, for sure. Our original 4-barrel brewing system was used twice previously prior to coming to rest with us, and both the previous owners went bust. The first time, the owner called before announcing the closure and asked me if I wanted to buy the kit. I referred him to the entity which became the second owner, from whom we purchased it a couple of years later after the second entity also failed. We’ve had it for ten years, and the system continues to produce.
One of our fellow Indiana brewers recently closed up shop, and we sat around debating proper protocol: There’d be items they no longer would need, ones that we might be able to use, and surely they’d need some cash; so should we contact them, and if so, how long to wait before we do it, and all that.
After a few days, we made a respectful inquiry, and the answer was thanks, but the brewery bits and pieces already had been sold. My guess is that if they saw the end coming, the sell-off might have started before the curtain fell — and in the context, this would have been a smart strategy.
Moral of the story to me is this: If it were to happen to me, I’d be traumatized and in full mourning … and also working out some way to transition back to civilian life, because if for no other reason, some of the money coming in for kegs and equipment might be diverted from banks to some of the ones who’d just lost their jobs. The world has a way of not standing around and waiting.
A friend and I spent an afternoon at Bavarian Barbarian interviewing Mike a little more than two years ago while in Williamsport to visit Bullfrog. Mike seemed like a nice guy, although he was certainly passionate and opinionated. His beers were mostly mediocre, and even back then it didn’t seem like things were going well in general. This blog post has some pictures of the equipment if anyone is interested: http://brewlocal.blogspot.com/2009/12/afternoon-with-bavarian-barbarian.html
He was also the guy who started the beer rating website on Probrewer a year ago: http://beerpulse.com/2010/07/when-brewers-go-on-the-attack/
I wouldn’t necessarily say his sentiments are unwarranted. Perhaps a little rough around the edges, but put yourself in his shoes: he’s likely put every fiber of his being into this business. Despite his best efforts, it went belly-up and after declaring the news he was immediately contacted by a bunch of opportunists looking to obtain personal gain from his loss.
Please have more tact than that, beer peeps. When he wants to sell, he’ll sell.
It’s hard to make an assessment one way or the other without seeing what the emails or phone calls said. I will say this. The market for equipment is obviously on fire right now so that’s all this is. A lot of businesses eager to start their dreams and/or grow their dreams.
Yeah.. I can understand asking about equipment. Harsh, but it’s just the reality of the business world, stuff is desired, and used is cheaper than new.
Asking for lessons.. that couldn’t be more crass/gauche. What a tool-ish, crappy thing to do to someone when they’re down..
To the guy saying he needs counseling.. I can tell you’ve never owned or run a business before..
It seems like he could recoup some losses by selling equipment and his knowledge about the brewing business might be of value. Maybe instead of being a jerk about it, some brewery who buys the equipment might hire him as an assistant or consultant or refer him to another brewer. I think he is burning bridges just because he is pissed at everyone for his business’ failings and that is understandable but in the grand scheme he is taking a terrible approach to this and he could be turning something obviously horrible into something maybe a little less horrible.
Seriously? Come on man, I know it really sucks that you’ve lost everything, but it happens all the time, and you need to move on.
It sounds like you have many people looking to buy this equipment. Hold an auction! Or at the very least, take the best offer, and offer them a chance to contract you to help them tear it down, set it back up, brew a few times, and show them the quirks. This is a good way to quickly recoup some of your losses.
You need to understand that there are just short of a thousand breweries in planning right now, and they all need equipment. Some people are going to be jerks about it, but other people just need a decent deal on some equipment so they can get off the ground.
It’s all in the matter of presentation. But it cracks me up that some people are telling this guy to get over the fact that his life dream is over. It is hard enough to make a business successful, it is that much harder to watch it fall. No matter the cause.
I never like to see a business go under (well almost never) and can only imagine the stress and anxiety when the writing on the wall becomes clear.
I’ve found in the brewing industry that some companies have great brewmasters making great beers and that’s it. They’re not business people or haven’t surrounded themselves with those people that have the skills to make something small into something big. In some cases they’re actually decent business people making crappy beer! In my opinion there are very few cases where you have a guy/gal with great business acumen making great beer. In this case you decide.
In many cases I think first impressions can confirm that. For me the first impression is the name. I think his company’s name was pretty bad – just a personal opinion – but to me that goes a long way in showing the depth of creativity whether it’s in their marketing approach or their ability to brew great beers with broad appeal.
With that said over the last 45 days I’ve tried over 100 new beers (new to me in the sense I hadn’t had them before) covering numerous styles from around the world including a Bavarian Barbarian Brewing Headbangerz Brown Ale. Out of ALL the beer I’ve tried (and continue to try) I’ve liked some better than others BUT there was ONLY one beer I didn’t like at all – nor did others in my group at a BYOB and that was this Brown Ale – I left a more than half full 22oz. bottle sitting on the table to be thrown away – it was just not good (at least our palates didn’t think so) – it didn’t seem that we got a bad bottle – it just really wasn’t good.
Honestly – I wasn’t surprised and honestly I should have known that based on the company that had the rights to distribute the product in my area….perhaps that was his first mistake (or his second or his last).
I can imagine that losing one’s business is exceptionally heart-breaking. Especially when the business is born of the kind of passion for brewing great beer I’m guessing everyone reading this article shares.
However, if I were about to embark upon the journey of starting my own brewery (and I’ve toyed with the notion), I’d be fraught with fears of not making it. It’s only natural, when you see disaster on the same road you’re planning to go down, that you’d want to know: what went wrong, what do I need to do to avoid the same fate?
I suppose the solicitations are a bit gauche, akin to asking someone being taken away from a mangled car wreck in an ambulance, “Hey, do you have any tips on how I can be a better driver than you?” But I think the desire to ask is quite understandable, and I also think that Mike Hiller probably has learned quite a lot through the school of hard knocks that can mentor others who share his dreams.
I identify with his ire, though. While he probably has some great wisdom to impart a younger generation of would-be brewers, from his perspective, why should he freely give so that others might flourish where he failed? It’s clearly a manifestation of envying the fresh opportunity in front of his solicitors, but it’s easy to comprehend–his wounds are very fresh and far from being healed.
One can hope, though, that as time passes, he can share what he learned, and brewers and businesspeople in his circle of influence might be the wiser for it, himself included.
Yeah, I think actions such as calling about equipment right after closure are in poor taste. I also suspect such actions are most likely futile as I am sure it would not be difficult to sell such equipment and imagine such options would have already been explored by the time of official announcement.
guy put blood, sweat and tears in to this and folks observing from a distance want him to get over it and move on immediately? compassion: alive and well on the internet